most of the individuals here from what i have read have gravitated to believing in evolution for various reasons and no longer have a belief in a creator.. the questions begs though, is there a higher conscious in the universe than mankind's.
i am sure everyone agrees that animals are conscious, but to what extent can they reason?.
here is the link to dr. rupert sheldrake's - is the sun conscious.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhsobpja8a.
If it ever attended a KH it would be a higher unconscious. Or maybe a lower unconscious depending on how you measured it.
Have you ever wondered whether people just pretend to be conscious? For example elders when they are taking the ministry group. Some of them mysteriously disappear afterwards but magically reappear when a bacon butty and a cup of coffee is on the horizon.
being raised a dub i never voted.
i’m not a republican or a democrat, not a liberal or a conservative.. i’m pretty middle of the road.
i want everyone to have a fair shake if possible in this life, but i definitely don’t believe in forced equality, that’s just not possible.
The 1600s - Manasseh ben Israel
Manasseh was most profoundly interested in Messianic problems, being convinced, for example, of the Davidic origin of the Abravanel family, from which his own wife was descended. He was full of cabalistic opinions, though he was careful not to expound them in those of his works that were written in modern languages and intended to be read by Gentiles. In particular, he was convinced that the restoration to the Holy Land could not take place until the Jews had spread into and inhabited every part of the world. In 1644 he came in contact with Antonio de Montesinos (Aaron Levi), who convinced him that the North-American Indians were the Lost Ten Tribes. He appears to have directed his attention to the countries in Europe where Jews were not permitted to live, trusting that by obtaining their admission the coming of the Messiah would be accelerated. He entered into correspondence with Christina, Queen of Sweden, ostensibly regarding matters of Hebrew learning, but probably with the design of getting her help in obtaining for the Jews admission into Sweden. But his chief attention was directed to securing the readmission of Jews into England, with many leading theologians of which country he was in active correspondence on this point
being raised a dub i never voted.
i’m not a republican or a democrat, not a liberal or a conservative.. i’m pretty middle of the road.
i want everyone to have a fair shake if possible in this life, but i definitely don’t believe in forced equality, that’s just not possible.
Watchtower is an organization but its a religion...it claims Jesus became invisibly present in 1914.
There are some Jews (I believe it is those who accept the Patriarchs) who, rejecting Jesus Christ as the Messiah, say that the Messiah is not a person but an Age. So a New Age starts when a particular moment in time comes.
Is it a secular idea? Is it a religious idea? Is is a secular, religous idea? Whatever, it is similar to Communism and the idea of a search for a society through a 3-stage theory of progress bit like a.......pyramid.
Impressed by progress, Joseph Rutherford felt that cream separators were evidence the Messiah had arrived. He also boldly told everyone that millions now living would never die and that all religion was a snare and a racket.
as someone who left in 1991 aged 21, one of my overriding memories of growing up in the watchtower was being able to "prove" the end times by referencing 1914.. major change in 95 then again after that.
if i'm being honest i could not even tell you now what the current teaching is.. for those who still attend the meetings, is it still openly spoken about?
i genuinely curious as i wonder if the teaching will be altogher dropped eventually, and one of the easiest ways to achieve that is to stop speaking about it.
Phizzy 1914 is in the Bible but not as JWs know it.
19+14=33
Ez 40:1 (it's the 19th year of Nebu plus 14 years after it)
This simple calculation is part and parcel of decimating WT's doctrine as if Jehovah knew all along exactly what liars were going to do. But he caught the liars in the trap they set for others because He is far, far more clever than they could ever conceive.
Jehovah created time and He knows how to use it with an awsome and frightening accuracy.
(Isaiah 54:17) . . .Any weapon whatever that will be formed against you will have no success, and any tongue at all that will rise up against you in the judgment you will condemn. This is the hereditary possession of the servants of Jehovah, and their righteousness is from me,” is the utterance of Jehovah.
as someone who left in 1991 aged 21, one of my overriding memories of growing up in the watchtower was being able to "prove" the end times by referencing 1914.. major change in 95 then again after that.
if i'm being honest i could not even tell you now what the current teaching is.. for those who still attend the meetings, is it still openly spoken about?
i genuinely curious as i wonder if the teaching will be altogher dropped eventually, and one of the easiest ways to achieve that is to stop speaking about it.
WT Public Edition No.3 carries the ad for latest study publication which contains info on 1914 in chapters 8 and 9.
i understand it’s a cult.
but what makes an intelligent person actually believe they have the “truth” as taught by jehovah’s witnesses??
?.
Yes I agree Smiddy - pride is involved. And some of those elders have been very cruel to others in the past. Treating them as less than human and less than an animal. Disgusting. But forgivable cause let's face it if someone treats you badly, you want that person to change and become your friend again, not go on and on being nasty.
But if you've not been forgiving towards others, then, when your own wrongdoing/mistakes comes to light, pride comes in. So being merciful to others is wise.
(2 Corinthians 2:6-8) . . .This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary now, you should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. 8 Therefore I exhort you to confirm your love for him.
I know one ex-elder who is extremely sorry for all he did as an elder. Struggles to make sense of it all and why he went along with it. He is deeply, deeply sorry.
i understand it’s a cult.
but what makes an intelligent person actually believe they have the “truth” as taught by jehovah’s witnesses??
?.
One elder explained to me the reason he stays in is because he believes the 1914 maths. Sadly he is being conned but in an extremely clever way. It is the numbers that are being fiddled with. WT provides convincing answers to some of the anomalies. Academics do the same thing but come up with a different date - but it's a similar trick whether within a secular/academic frame or a WT frame.
Why do intelligent people make wrong decisions about work, housing, investments, child rearing, whatever? Everyone makes mistakes. Some are more serious than others. Does everyone correct or do they double down on their mistakes?
People have powers of reason. In relation to the Watchtower, when wrong information is broadcast/published, why do people who can reason it out go along with a falsehood? Sometimes it is a coping mechanism because they are in a very difficult situation and they don't know the Bible very well.
Yes, they hold on to a set of superstitious beliefs. But so do a lot of other people in all walks of life.They should all know better but it's not like that. Crafty lies are powerful things.
i understand it’s a cult.
but what makes an intelligent person actually believe they have the “truth” as taught by jehovah’s witnesses??
?.
When you don't understand something complex you might fall into the trap of thinking you lack the intelligence to ever figure out something so complex. So you learn to look to the media org/broadcast believing it is a trustworthy source and is intellectually superior to you. But you can work out complex things if you want to. You don't have to rely on others. It is best to do your own due dilligence.
(Acts 17:11) . . .Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. . .
Also sometimes people who are seeking to trick you make simple things deliberately hard to understand by using words you are not familiar with or words that shift in meaning. And, they can make things so long and boring.... like a 3 day convention...yawn, yawn, yawn... you just lose the thread of what they are saying.
i understand it’s a cult.
but what makes an intelligent person actually believe they have the “truth” as taught by jehovah’s witnesses??
?.
Explain to a Christian that the term Jehovah's Witness applied to members of the House of Jacob. Then say Jesus was the greatest one who came from the House of Jacob.
Next explain that your denomination has taken the name of the entire House of Jacob and they are just like the Methodists attempting to get back to what Jesus really said. Having put on a reasonably good show with the preaching work and sound moral values (on the face of it) boldly say, "if you can find anything better, you tell us and we will ALL come with you." Follow that with, "we know we've made mistakes but we are not like the Catholic Church. If we have anything wrong we will change it. We are simple men just doing our best."
This is called a confidence trick and it relies on trusting people not have the insight to ask the right questions to reveal the trick. It happens in other areas of life too.
One question that should be asked is - "WHEN will a false teaching be changed?" Answer - "next pancake Friday."
NOW you see through it. But who is going to be that suspicious that these apparently nice Christian people are pulling a fast one UNTIL you have got to know them? Also some of them are genuine, even if they have been misled. They were conned too.
as someone who left in 1991 aged 21, one of my overriding memories of growing up in the watchtower was being able to "prove" the end times by referencing 1914.. major change in 95 then again after that.
if i'm being honest i could not even tell you now what the current teaching is.. for those who still attend the meetings, is it still openly spoken about?
i genuinely curious as i wonder if the teaching will be altogher dropped eventually, and one of the easiest ways to achieve that is to stop speaking about it.
Yes it is spoken of sometimes. Most don't understand it but it is a necessary starting point for overlapping generations etc.
